
A few years ago, I saw a film called 'The Future is Unwritten', a documentary about Joe Strummer, lead singer of The Clash. I knew of The Clash already, 'London Calling' was one of my favourite albums at the time (and still is), but I wasn't fully aware of Strummer's charisma, both as a performer and as an ordinary person. The film, directed by Julien Temple, has a mesmeric feel to it, particularly moments in which Joe Strummer narrated the film (excerpts taken from shows on BBC Radio he hosted) but even if it had been the most straight-forward style of filmmaking, it would have still been captivating because of Strummer. He was someone you just couldn't take your eyes off, no matter he was saying.
After I watched the film, I bought a biography of The Clash, 'Passion is a Fashion: The Real Story of The Clash' by Pat Gilbert, intent on discovering much more about the iconic band. It's a great read as Gilbert traces the paths of each member of the band all the way from childhood to their collective fame and the repercussions thereafter. Yet while each band-member's lifestory is intriguing in its own right, Strummer's is by the most enthralling of them all. You can feel Gilbert's own fascination with his subject as he recounts stories Strummer told him in their numerous conversations together.
Spurred on by the book and the film, I decided to make my own short documentary about Joe Strummer, exploring how important a figure he still is today. It was mostly going to be interview-based, so finding the right people to talk to was going to be important. Miraculously enough, I found out that my next door neighbour had been a roadie for The Clash and had known Strummer intimately; she told me that Strummer even used to write songs with her 5-year old daughter. Not a bad start, I thought. With an interview like that in the bag, I thought I should find a more journalistic one to complement it. So I went after Gilbert himself. It was surprisingly easy to get in contact with him, he was the editor at Mojo (a music magazine) at the time and he was more than happy to see me. Unfortunately, after I got the two interviews, the project stagnated a bit for various reasons. I never did complete it, which is a great shame; maybe one day I will, but for now it's in the drawer. Truth be told, I haven't thought about this in a long time and it was only while getting rid of excess files on my computer that I came across the interview with Gilbert that I had transcribed. And since it may be a while until I open that drawer again, I thought I could at least take advantage of the interview and put it here for all to read.
What would you say initially got you into the world of music journalism?
It was the Clash, oddly enough. They were the kind of band who really inspired a generation of people to get off their arses really and pursue their dreams. There was a kind of do-it-yourself ethic attached to punk rock which basically said that no one’s going to come along and give you anything, you’ve got to make stuff happen yourself. And I was always fascinated by the Clash, I always wanted to write a book about them, write about the music and understand the kinds of stories and personalities behind it all. So yeah, Joe Strummer probably had a big hand in all of it for me.
Did you see look up to Joe Strummer, as an idol perhaps?
Well, one of the things about Joe, and it’s the same for a lot of people of my age-group, is that he was an idol. All the stuff we know about the band now, the personal stuff and what was going on behind the scenes, people didn’t know that in ’77, ’78, ’79, you know, they were just mythologizing in the press and they sort of bought into their own mythology and amplified it all. They were these really cool rock star guys, banging on about changing the world, they looked really smart and they looked really tough. It was more like a Hollywood war film in a funny sort of way, it seemed to be coming from that kind of place; Hollywood idols of the ’50s in military gear, like ‘From Here to Eternity’ but talking about stuff that was relevant in the late ’70s. I saw Joe as that public person and it’s very difficult sometimes; that relationship I had with that picture on my wall I had as a 13 or 14 year-old kid. It was such a powerful image and the mythology was so powerful, I don’t think the real person could ever live up to that.
Did you find that was the case when you first met him?
Yeah, I mean I was probably in my mid-thirties when I started getting to know the Clash as people, by which time they were in their mid-forties. So I was a bit older and wiser at the point, but still… As soon as you met them, you realised they were human beings, just complicated humans really. They were still really cool, still spoke really cool and still made really cool music. But you did see there were other dimensions to them. There was a lot of confusion about the ideology and the message of the Clash, it was very straight-down-the-line and you realised that outside of that they all thought of things in very different ways. Joe particularly was always searching; a common thing people say about Joe was that he didn’t really know what he felt because he always exploring his thoughts, he never arrived at a set of values or answers that he was happy with. You always got that sense when you talked to him that he was sort of… I don’t know. He’d get very passionate and roused about stuff one minute, and then the next minute he’d probably completely contradict himself. They didn’t have a well-thought theory behind it all, and that was difficult as well. On a day that I did fairly substantial interview with him, it was the day of the general election in 2000, 2001 maybe, and he hadn’t voted. And one of the key things the Clash would always bang about was the vote being important, you’re never going to change the political system by being idle, you’ve got to smash it. And I asked him if he voted and he said no, it wouldn’t make any difference in his constituency out in the country. And I was kind of uncomfortable with that but he’s absolutely right, I live in the country now and I don’t think I voted in the last general election. But then I’m not Joe Strummer, you expect something of him. Sometimes people’s expectations are very adolescent and childlike, and back then was a time when those expectations had formed.
Besides their politics, how do you think their music influenced other bands around at that time?
Well they were hugely influential at the time because they blueprinted that whole political urban rock thing that they’d taken from reggae music and late ’60s American soul music. Everybody started writing about police brutality but the Clash got there first, writing about Rastafarians and what it was like on the street. Musically, they wrote brilliant songs, very fast with lots of choppy chords changes and angular guitars. Everybody ripped that off of them from the Ruts to Stiff Little Fingers to any other number of punk bands and that just continued with people like Green Day and to a certain extent Nirvana. But the idea was hugely influential, the idea that a rock band wasn’t just interested in girls and money, that a rock band was making political statements, it was about changing the world and educating people. How many people do it really well? Bands like Hard-Fi these days do that to a certain extent, but it’s a difficult trick to pull off without it sounding really corny.
Speaking of bands of today, how do you think a band like the Clash fit into the mould of the more electronic-sounding music that’s becoming ever more popular?
Well a very obvious way is that the Clash were very experimental. Every record was going into new musical territory. In ‘Sandinista’ there was soundtrackey stuff, jazz stuff, loads of reggae, loads of dub. So it’s not really a bass, guitar and drums rock thing, there was lots of studio use as well, and the huge influence there is on dance music. They’ve been massively sampled; Rock the Casbah, the Clash’s big dancefloor hit was heavily used for Will Smith’s Will2k. And people like the Beastie Boys were massively influenced by the Clash. They were the first band really to get into dub, and they were the first band to assimilate rap and hip-hop into their music, they were very cutting edge.
Do you think that kids of today reading NME and Mojo and listening to these new bands are aware of the Clash and their significance?
Well if they’re not aware of the Clash, they ought to be. If you went back and took the Clash out of the equation, heaven knows what music would be like.





